Not reading all group records

[Anonymous]

#40053

I have an EZX10RF and 5 X10 motion detectors. When I use the SHN utility to read the group records, only 2 are displayed.

I know that all 5 group records are there because I get the expected motion inputs in the form of Insteon commands to my ISY99, and on the utility X10RF tab, I can read the 5 indexes and see the group numbers 1-5.

The utility is v1.78 and it reports the EZX10RF as v19. Should I be concerned?

David

[Anonymous]

#42219

When you refer to Group records, are you referring to what you see when using the Manage Device Links tab? Have you tried listing the link records more than once. The Utility is sensitive to receiving expected messages in return to messages that are issued. Unexpected Insteon traffic can cause the Display process to stop, particularly when traffic can be generated by triggering of one of the motion sensors. Requesting another Display may provide more information the next time. What is displayed in the lower right corner of the SHN Utility window when the Display Existing Link Records display stops. Also, what are the last few lines under the Insteon Traffic tab, Received Insteon Traffic window. Finally are you Connecting the SHN Utility through an EZSrve or a PLC.

[Anonymous]

#42220

Yes, I am talking about the link records in the Manage Device Link. After disabling all the motion sensors and letting everything get quiet, I read the links 5 or 6 times with the same results each time. Only 2 link records were displayed. In the lower right corner I got “Getting Links”, “Found a Record… Retrieving”, and then “Ready”.

On the Insteon Traffic tab, I cleared the received window before each test and got this same list for each run of the test…

from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:28 cmd2:F
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:E2
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:1
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:D
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:FE
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:A1
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:FF
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:1F
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:1
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:E2
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:2
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:D
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:27 cmd1:2B cmd2:FE
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:A1
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:FF
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:1F
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:2
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:2B cmd2:0
from ID:06.4D.86 flags:2B cmd1:28 cmd2:0

IF you know how to decipher that, I would give just about anything to learn the secret.

I have, at other times, seen some strange results reading either code records on the X10RF tab or link records on the Manage Links tab. These did coincide with unexpected activity from the sensors.

And I am connecting via PLC.

Is that helpful??
David

[Anonymous]

#42221

I can decipher the trace entries but it does not explain why only two. The right hand window contains the responses received to specific commands issued by the SHN Utility. The issued commands are displayed in the left hand window. There is generally a one for one relationship and I was expecting to see an extra inbound record labeled with but no such luck. In the right side window cmd1 field is the command that was originally issued and cmd2 is the data byte received in response to the command. You can find the command numbers and a description in the EZX10RF Command Set in the SHN Download section. Basically the Utility is Peeking data from individual bytes of memory where the link database is located.

The commands in the trace are

0x28 sets the Most Significant Byte (MSB) of the memory address.
0x2B is a Peek. In the outbound command, cmd2 is the low order byte of the memory address, In the inbound command it is the value contained in the memory byte accessed by the Peek. You can follow the memory addresses being accessed by following the cmd2 value of the Peeks (0x2B) in the left hand window, outbound commands.

A link record is 8 bytes long consisting of:

Flags – E2 – “Controller of” link record
Group – 1 – Group number
Device ID: 0D.FE.A1 – Insteon address of device being controlled – PLM/PLC used by ISY
Data 1 – 0xFF – bright level – has no relevance in a “Controller of” link record
Data 2 – 0x1F – ramp rate – has no relevance in a “Controller of” link record
Data 3 – 1 – varies by device. In this case Group number

Flags – E2 – “Controller of” link record
Group -2 – Group number
Device ID: 0D.FE.A1 – Insteon address of device being controlled – PLM/PLC used by ISY
Data 1 – 0xFF – bright level – has no relevance in a “Controller of” link record
Data 2 – 0x1F – ramp rate – has no relevance in a “Controller of” link record
Data 3 – 2 – varies by device. In this case Group number

Flags – 00 – end of active link record list

The last 0x28 is resetting the MSB byte to 0x00, which seems to be a convention when finished Peeking or Poking.

The link records are stored in memory, high to low. 0xFF8 is the beginning address of the first link record (there is an exception to that but not relevant to your situation).

Is there something in ISY that you are looking at that is showing Groups 3-5 are actually being used. Just because there is a Group number assigned to an index number does not mean there is an active link record for that Group number. Any chance that some of the motion sensors are using the same X10 device address. The Insteon Traffic tab is not a generalized Insteon traffic trace. Because you have a PLC, you can open the SDM3 window (double click on blue T shaped ICON in system tray when SHN Utility is running) which is the interface between the PLC and the application. That is a general Insteon trace although Insteon traffic can flow faster than the PLC/SDM3 can generate trace records. The lack of a trace entry cannot does not mean that an Insteon message did not actually flow. The Group number is contained in the Group message sequence so you should be able to look at the SDM3 trace data to see if the EZX10RF is issuing Group commands for Groups 3-5.

Let me know what you find.

EDIT: how did you establish the links which you are currently using?

Using the Set button on the EZX10RF?
Using the SHN Utility?
Using ISY function?

[Anonymous]

#42222

The motion detectors are addressed as A1, A3, A5, A7, A9. I see group numbers 1 thru 5 in two places.

In the HSN Utility on the EZX10RF tab, I can read X10 code records using indexes 1 thru 5. For each code record it shows a unique X10 address and group number like so…

Index 1 – X10 A1 – Grp# 1
Index 2 – X10 A3 – Grp# 2
Index 3 – X10 A5 – Grp# 3
and so on…

In the ISY when each new link is established, the default “device” name is the Insteon address. For the motion detectors they are…
6 4D 86 1
6 4D 86 2
…
6 4D 86 5
where the group number is appended to the Insteon address of the EZX10RF.

When activating the individual motion detectors, I do receive the 5 different Insteon ON commands for the 5 detectors (and also the 5 different Insteon OFF commands generated by the EZX10RF after the timeout specified in the code records).

To sum it up, I have 5 motion detectors with unique address, sending x10 commands to the EZX10RF, which translates to and sends 5 unique Insteon address to an ISY99, which controls 5 different lights thru LampLinks or SwitchLinks. Everything works wonderful and as expected!

Except the EZX10RF will only display 2 of the link records!

So far, this has not kept me from doing anything I have wanted to do. I am only concerned by the thought that I may need to tweek a link record if things don’t go smoothly in the future. Things have actually gone to smoothly for this kind of techno stuff. I hate to think of redoing all those links if I have to factory reset the EZX10RF or, heaven forbid, it needs to be replaced because of this problem.

Am I worrying for nothing?

And, BTW, Thanks for all your help.
David

[Anonymous]

#42223

I don’t think you have anything to worry about since it is working for you. Just cannot explain how it is working with the link records that are being displayed. I am sending you a PM with some additional data.

If you want to continue analyzing this situation but don’t want to pursue the approach in the PM, start the SHN Utility and Connect to the PLC. Double click on the blue T shaped Icon in the system tray to open the SDM3 window. Trigger each of the 5 motion sensors and post the trace data from the SDM3 window.

[Anonymous]

#42224

I want to thank grif091 for all his help with this problem.

And let other users know what we believe is happening.

The EZX10RF is built on the Smarthome PLM module and some newer ones may come with extended memory. My EZX10 is very new so it may fall into this category. We believe the EZX10 is storing some of the link records in this extended memory. They are there, and working as they should, but the HSN Utility is not displaying them in the Manage Links tab. We expect that a future version of the utility will properly display these links. Since my motion sensors are working as I intended, I am just filing this away for future reference. If I do experience a problem that needs fixing, I hope the new utility is then available.

David

[Author]

Posts