Getting Insteon Scene to Trigger an Action 2010-02-28T16:07:25+00:00

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  • Anonymous
    Post count: 131
    #40246 |

    I have successfully setup my first set of Insteon devices (replacing existing X10 environment). It took a little bit of work but with the forum and the SHN_Utility I was able to get my Insteon devices working great. Thanks to Lee and everyone else’s posts as they were invaluable.

    I am now trying to integrate my Insteon and X10 devices so that I can replace items slowly. This is what I have: SwitchLinc (6 button), 3 OutletLinc, and a bunch of X10 devices (mostly outlets, a few dimmer switches, and two remotes).

    I have a “Night Time” button (Scene D) on the SwitchLinc setup to automatically turn on/off the Insteon Devices (works correctly). I have a Action setup that triggers “Night Time” scene which includes the Inseton devices and (2) X10 Outlets at Sunset+15 (works correctly).

    I now want to add the following condition (OR’ed) to the existing Action:
    If the Insteon “Night Time” scene or the Insteon “Night Time” button is pushed, then execute the Action. I don’t really care whether I use the Scene or the Button at this point, however I would assume that the Scene would be the better route since I plan on having more than one Insteon SwitchLinc which controls the “Night Time” Scene and I would rather not have to define a condition for each SwitchLinc since we only have 5 of them.

    I have tried using “Night Time” scene Status = 1101 as well as “Night Time” SwitchLinc button Status = 1106 (Scene D). Neither option appears to have any affect.

    Of course, all of this goes away as I move to replace all devices with Insteon, but in the mean time I really need to get this to work. Any ideas?

    Thanks,
    Steve

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    For the 6 button KeypadLinc button D to trigger an Action, the EZServe must be a responder to button D. Otherwise, the EZServe does not see the button D press. A Condition with Attribute: Status and Attribute Value: 1106 (lower right small button in 6 button mode) will trigger the Action (assuming the EZServe is a responder to button D).

    Was not sure what you are asking regarding the EZServe “Night Time” Scene triggering an Action. For confirmation of your configuration, you have KeypadLinc button D linked to some of the Insteon devices such that button D turns On/Off those devices. You describe a time based Sunset +15 Condition triggering an Action with an Effect that controls an EZServe “Night Time” Scene. What/how would the EZServe “Night Time” Scene be utilized that should trigger an Action.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    Your “responder” comment made a lot of sense. So this is what I did…

    Here is my “Night Time” Scene:

    Controller(s):
    Ezserve (08)
    OD Front Yard Lights (06) <== Scene Button

    Responder(s):
    Ezserve (09)
    OD Front Yard Lights (01) <== Actual light switch (ON)
    Entry Way (01)

    The reason that I have Ezserve twice is because I have another scene called “Night Time Buttons”:

    Controller(s):
    Ezserve (08)

    Responder(s):
    OD Front Yard Lights (06)

    The purpose of this second scene is to ensure that when “Night Time” is triggered (by button, action, etc…) all SwitchLinc’s with the “Night Time” scene button will light up, remember that I will be having multiple SwitchLinc’s soon. Note that this was working correctly.

    My challenge with this setup is that now I have everything setup like this, I can’t figure out what my condition logic should be. I would have assumed it would have been one of the following: “Night Time” Status = 1101, 1106, 1108, or 1109.

    1101 assuming that it is the scene’s status I was looking for. (Did not work)
    1106 assuming that we are looking at the SwitchLinc button. (Did not work)
    1108 just trying it. (Did not work)
    1109 assuming that we want to know when Ezserve was told by the button push to respond. (Did not work)

    I really thought 1109 would do it but alas no success. Any idea of what I should do?

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    By the way, one thing that I thought was odd was that I could not find “EZServe” in my list of available items. If I could have found that, then it would have been VERY easy by asking that it’s status was 1109 (responder group for EZServe).

    Should I be able to see EZServe in my list of Devices in the conditions section? If so, do you know why it isn’t there?

    Thanks,
    Steve

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    For the most part you do not want EZServe or any other HA software/firmware involved in basic lighting. Anything that can be done using native Insteon hardware should be done with native Insteon hardware. It is faster and should EZServe be unavailable for any reason, the basic lighting still functions.

    Establish the device to device link relationships as you would if using the Tap Set button method. It is just much easier to accomplish with EZServe Scene/link management. When the proper links are established the status LEDs stay in Sync without any intervention from EZServe or any other HA software/firmware. This is the way Insteon hardware is designed to work.

    The hardware linking should look like this… (Insteon calls this cross-linking of devices)

    KeypadLinc1 – Button D – Controller
    OD Front Yard Light – Responder
    Entry Way – Responder
    KeypadLinc2 – Button x – Responder
    KeypadLinc3 – Button y – Responder

    KeypadLinc2 – Button x – Controller
    OD Front Yard Light – Responder
    Entry Way – Responder
    KeypadLinc1 – Button D – Responder
    KeypadLinc3 – Button y – Responder

    KeypadLinc3 – Button y – Controller
    OD Front Yard Light – Responder
    Entry Way – Responder
    KeypadLinc1 – Button D – Responder
    KeypadLinc2 – Button x – Responder

    I included KeypadLinc2 and KeypadLinc3 for the sake of the example to show how your future KeypadLincs will be linked. When the devices are linked this way pressing Button D (KPL1) or Button x (KPL2) or Button y (KPL3) will control OD Front Yard Light and Entry Way and the other KeypadLinc button LEDs, all without any HA intervention. That is, pressing Button D on KPL1 will turn On/Off OD Front Yard Light, Entry Way. KPL2 Button x LED, KPL3 Button y LED.

    To establish the above links/cross links using EZServe define the following…

    Scene x
    Controllers
    KeypadLinc1 Unit 6 (representing button D in six button mode)
    KeypadLinc2 Unit x (unit number representing button used on KPL2)
    KeypadLinc3 Unit y (unit number representing button used on KPL3)
    Responders
    OD Front Yard Light LD3 0, (LD1 and LD2 values represent Bright and Ramp Rate values of your choice)
    Entry Way LD3 0, (LD1 and LD2 represent Bright and Ramp Rate values of your choice)
    KeypadLinc1 LD1 100%, LD2 .1 second, LD3 6 (for Button D in 6 button mode)
    KeypadLinc2 LD1 100%, LD2 .1 second, LD3 x (value representing button x)
    KeypadLinc3 LD1 100%, LD2 .1 second, LD3 y (value representing button y)

    Note that EZServe is neither a Controller nor Responder as once these links/cross links are established by EZServe, you can unplug EZServe and the above device relationships work.

    The time base Action at Sunset +15 requires a Scene where EZServe is the Controller and whatever device(s) you want to respond are Responders. The Controller Unit number is your choice for this Scene, just don’t duplicate Unit number usage where EZServe is the Controller. If you want KPL button LEDs to turn On/Off in response to this EZServe Scene add each KPL button as a Responder.

    Scene y
    Controllers
    EZServe Unit 4 (this number is your choice, do not use same Unit number for different scenes)
    Responders
    OD Front Yard Lights LD3 0, (LD1 and LD2 represent Bright and Ramp Rate values of your choice)
    Entry Way LD3 0, (LD1 and LD2 represent Bright and Ramp Rate values of your choice)
    KeypadLinc1 LD1 100%, LD2 .1 second, LD3 6 (for Button D in 6 button mode)
    KeypadLinc2 LD1 100%, LD2 .1 second, LD3 x (unit number representing button used on KPL2)
    KeypadLinc3 LD1 100%, LD2 .1 second, LD3 y (unit number representing button used on KPL3)

    The Responders listed in Scene y are whatever devices and KPL buttons that you want to respond to the Scene.

    You will not see EZServe in the list of devices as there is nothing to check for EZServe itself. You are checking the state/status of individual devices, which EZServe firmware is keeping track of, but there is no specific state/status of EZServe itself.

    Hope this clears up some of the questions. You do not need or want an Action to keep the KPL button LEDs in sync. Once the devices are properly linked/cross linked the Insteon hardware will keep things in sync as the hardware was designed to do. Remember the Insteon devices are designed to work without any HA. Only when you get into the more sophisticated things like controlling devices at certain times of day (Sunset +15 for example) or complex Conditioning is HA stuff needed and very useful. HA does make the process of defining and maintaining the links much easier. You could use the Tap Set button press technique to establish the links/cross links with the same results but it is much easier when doing from the PC.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    There is one problem with this. In the scenario above you show that I need to have both the “OD Frontyard Lights” and the “SwitchLinc 1” in the responder section. The problem is that they are one in the same (just different groups (LD3)). The problem is that Ezserve won’t allow me to specify the same responder device in the same scene. Is there a way around this?

    Also, since the X10 devices can’t not be “controlled” by the Insteon devices directly, how do I make it so that when you press Scene D on SwithchLinc 1 is pressed that not only the Insteon devices turn on but that the X10 devices would turn on as well? Basically, what is the condition that I need to create?

    Thanks,
    Steve

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    Sorry, I did not get that you were trying to control multiple KPL buttons on the same KPL. You cannot assign the same device address as more than a single responder to an EZServe Scene. This will have to be done with the SHN Utility or with the Tap Set button process. For KPL secondary button control of the same KPL load there is a process documented in the KPL User Guide to establish this relationship. Of course a KPL secondary button can always control a different KPL button (but only one of a given KPL with a Scene established through EZServe).

    You cannot trigger an Action Condition using an EZServe Scene name. Actions are triggered from time based events and/or individual device based events.

    To trigger an Action based on a device event that device or device button (KPL, RemoteLinc, etc) must have the EZServe as a Responder. The Group number xx used (11xx, 13xx, etc) is that of the controller device that is triggering the Action. For single button controllers the Group number is always 01. For multiple button controllers such as a ControLinc, RemoteLinc, KPL, it is the Group number used by the respective button. These Group numbers are established by the device itself and cannot be changed. The exception to this convention are the Simplehomenet products which can have a different Group number assigned to the Inputs of many of the devices.

    Insteon devices can be assigned an X10 address and that device will respond to an X10 command. To send an X10 command from EZServe an Action will have to be triggered with the Effects issuing X10 commands.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    No worries. I have made a number of changes but I am still at the same point, I can not get the Insteon device to trigger an Action.

    As you suggested, I have added the Ezserve as a responder to the “OD Frontyard Lights” 06 (Scene D) button. I then try to create a condition and still have nothing but troubles.

    I have tried the following:
    1. Using “OD Frontyard Lights” I can not get the “Attribute” setting to get a Status. Therefore, I can not set it based on that.
    2. I can not see any EZServe objects to base this on.

    Using SHN_Utility, I get the following:

    So I assume that EZServe is being made aware of the change in Status. But I still have no clue one how to “capture” that status and do something with it.

    Any thoughts? Thanks,
    Steve

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    Are you using the HTML interface and what device type is the OD Frontyard Lights as defined to EZServe?

    If using the HTML interface, you have to click SAVE on the Condition screen after setting Status and 1106. Then click Back button on Condition screen. After setting (or not) any Effects, click SAVE on the Actions screen. The specific Condition1 must be checked to Enable it as well as the Action is Enabled box before clicking SAVE on Actions screen which is the last interaction with the Action.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    The “OD Frontyard Lights” is marked as OTHER.

    I am using the HTML interface and save on each screen as you suggested.

    I am sure that it is the “OTHER” category that is causing the problem. However, when you sync the devices this is what you get. In addition, EZServe won’t let you modify them.

    Any suggestions?

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    That is the problem. A device defined as OTHER does not present “Status” as an option because the nature of the device is unknown. How was the device initially added, as what device type. Once added you cannot change the device type. The device has to be Deleted and Added as what it actually is.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    As instructed in the Ezserve guide, I gave it a name and pressed save. It told me to put the device in linking mode, which I did. It recognized it as OTHER and as you said I have been unable to reset it.

    If I export the device.xml and modify it there and re-import it, would that work?

    Thanks,
    Steve

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    I would not try to modify the Devices.xml file for changing the device type (Cat/Subcat). Each device entry has much more cluster data in V2. Delete the device. When it asks if the device is available, respond NO so that the link database will not be changed. Add the device again specifying the Insteon Address and device type. The device link database will be retrieved as part of the Add process.

    If you really want to try manual modification, add a dummy device with the device type in question. Then make the real device entry look like the dummy. Again, I do not recommend this approach.

    Adding a device with the Auto Discovery technique requires that EZServe (or whatever HA software/firmware is being used) be aware of the Cat/Subcat values of every device and variant of every device. Smartlabs is changing these values so often now that is nearly impossible to stay up to date. Even HouseLinc2 (Smarthome’s HA software) has not been able keep up to date with current Cat/Subcat value changes and they should know when a new variant is coming before a device every ships. There is a link to a user web site off of one of the Smarthome forum topics that has a list of the various Cat/SubCat values that have been found in the field. For a KeypadLinc Dimmer there are at least four Cat/Subcat variants that have been identified so far.

    Once the device is added with the correct device type, “Status” will be an Attribute option.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    Wow…. Almost there.

    Now I just need to know how to create a link from the KeypadLinc Scene D button to the KeypadLinc ON button as you recommended above.

    I would like to do this via the SHN_Utility, but I don’t know what the syntax is. Can you please help me figure that out?

    Assuming that the device code is xx.yy.zz, ON button = 01, and Scene D button = 06. What do I need to put into SHN_Utility to make that work?

    Also, if you know this one off your head I would appreciate it as well. I would like to set the default ON state of the light to 90% instead of 100%. Do you know how I set that in SHN_Utility? Also, do I need to do anything special in setting up the links in the scenes (like leave LD1 blank) in order for it to take the default setting and ramp rate?

    Thanks again for all of your help.
    Steve

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1001

    The “linking” of a KeypadLinc secondary button to the primary button for load control is not done with conventional link records so the SHN Utility cannot be used to establish this. Follow the procedure in the KPL User Guide for this. The relationship is all done with various bits set in the KPL memory, not the link database.

    The “local” bright level and ramp rate in effect when the paddle is pressed On is done at the KPL itself. Follow the procedure in the KPL User Guide for this. Basically you set the Bright level and then press the Set button, set the Ramp Rate and press the Set button twice. All of that is from memory and probably wrong and I think it varies depending on whether the KPL is before or after revision 1.5. In theory you can issue Insteon commands to set the various memory locations required to accomplish these settings and then power cycle the KPL to make them active. If these values are established using the procedure described in the KPL User Guide a power cycle is not needed to make them active. The memory map of the KPL varies depending on the revision (last I heard there are 3 different memory maps). This is all considered confidential information which I do not have. Again, follow the procedure in the KPL User Guide that matches the KPL revision level. I think you can configure these “local” values through the Harmony client. The Harmony client is Beta level so this particular capability may or may not be there at present.

    A KPL that is responding to a Group command from another controller does not access the “local” bright level and ramp rate information used when the paddle in the responder KPL is pressed. When using the Set button to establish links the bright level and ramp rate in the responder are established first, locked in, then the device is linked as a responder. The bright level and ramp rate that was locked in before the device is linked as a responder is stored in the LD1 and LD2 fields respectively in the “Responder To” link record in the responder device. So, set the LD1 and LD2 values in the “Responder To” link record to whatever values you want. A full Bright level of 100% is LD1=0xFF which is decimal 255. A 90% bright level is LD1=0xE5, decimal 229. This is an approximate value and may have to be adjusted to meet the visual result desired.

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