EZX10RF X-10 RF to Insteon Linking Issue 2007-09-29T16:22:05+00:00

HOME Forums Controllers EZX10RF EZX10RF X-10 RF to Insteon Linking Issue

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  • Anonymous
    Post count: 3
    #39790 |

    I am using an X-10 RF Palm Pad remote to link to Insteon devices in my home. I am having an issue with more than one item will link to the X-10 command.

    Example:
    X10 code N1 to control Insteon Dimmer switch in my kitchen. When I complete the link to control JUST THIS ONE Insteon device, I will have three other Insteon devices linked. I do not want the other devices linked, just the kitchen. I do not have any of the other devices linked in any other software, or manually. I do not understand the term Al has told me that it is sending a group command, does not make sense to me. I should be able to send one X-10 RF command, to control ONE Insteon device, should’nt I?

    How do I get this thing to just link one X-10 RF code to just one Insteon Device? My goal is to have control of 16 individual Insteon devices using the 16 button X-10 RF Palm Pad.

    Help!!!

    Anonymous
    Post count: 6

    I will be watching this thread with interest, as I too learn how this linking is to be accomplished. I do understand using “Group ” commands, but is there any value to using the EZX10RF to send a “Broadcast” message, by unchecking the “linked” flag in the translation table? From reading about the Insteon protocol, it seems that Broadcast messages have no purpose outside of establishing links, and cannot be used to control devices; is that right? If so, then will simple device commanding like djahn and I want to do, have to use multiple groups, where each group contains only one device? Evidently, the EZX10RF does not support “Direct” messages; is that right?

    My main question is — what could be accomplished by NOT checking the “linked” flag in the translation table? There must be some useful purpose to it, or the check-box would not be there.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 256

    First a clarification: Group commands or as SmartLabs calls them now “All-Link” commands are what most controllers such as the KeypadLinc, ControlLinc, and EZxx devices send. They differ from “Direct” commands in that they get sent to a single or multiple devices that have been “linked” to a Sender’s database. I know this is a bit confusing but think about this way. A Sender (controller) has a set of buttons, some for ON and some for OFF. A user can “link” (associate) a given responder with a button, such that when the button is pressed, the responder does something. Now, multiple responders can be associated with the same button. This is one of the advantages of “All-Link” commands. When the user presses the button (ON or OFF), a command goes (via a broadcast) to all the devices linked to that button do “activate” or “deactivate”. The Sender then follows with direct messges to each of the linked devices in what is called “Group Cleanup” to ensure each device gets the message.
    In the EZX10RF, it is possible to link multiple devices (switches) on the same “All-Link” group by simply entering another link with the same X10 code and different device.
    The problem is with “orphan” links. When removing a link for the X10RF database, the device does not automatically remove the link form the device whose link was just erased. Thus, it is possible that the activation of a group is “seen” and responded to by another device that is seemingly not present in the X10RF database.

    We are making it more convenient to deal with this complication by providing a “Links Management” facility in our free utility. This wil be available before the end of October.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 6

    Thank you, that clarification helps. I have seen different documentation refering to Group and to All-Link, commands/messages, and now knowing that these are the same thing helps a lot. I think SmartLabs should have stuck with the term “Group” commands — “All-Link” commands might be wrongfully interpreted as simlar to or related to “All On / All Off” commands. 🙁

    Now that I understand that better, my original question remains. The Simplehomenet documentation implies in many places that the EZX10RF can respond in THREE possible ways. Here are some clips from documentation:

    Up to 20 wireless X10 unique devices can be set up to send an INSTEON broadcast message or “linked” with INSTEON devices to send group commands. X10 House/Unit codes are “learned” by EZX10RF such that their activation can trigger INSTEON broadcast messages or group commands to conveniently cause INSTEON events

    Depending on how a unique X10 code is set up with EZX10RF, the unit either rebroadcasts the X10 signal, sends an INSTEON broadcast message, or sends an INSTEON group command. An INSTEON group command is sent for a code with a linked record (both “in use” and “linked” flags set). An INSTEON broadcast message is sent for a code where only the “in use” flag is set.

    An INSTEON group command is sent for a code with a linked record (both “in use” and “linked” flags set). An INSTEON broadcast message is sent for a code where only the “in use” flag is set.

    In the tables that follow, the column heading SE DAB denotes whether the command is Standard-length (S) or Extendedlength (E), and whether it is a Direct (D), ALL-Link (A), or Broadcast (B) command.

    So my remaining question is: When would it be useful to send a Broadcast message instead of a Group command?

    Anonymous
    Post count: 256

    Think of “Group” commands for command and control. A given device or remote sends a command to another device or group of devices to turn on or off.
    Think of a broadcast message as a means of advertising or monitoring. Some software packages use this scheme to know when something has happened in the system, such as an alarm from a water leak detector. No specific group or ID needs to be known and the devie simply sends the message out there for anyone intrested.

    Most people will use group commands for control when not using a home automation package.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 3

    Why can I not just get X-10 Code L1 from a Palm Pad to be recived by the device and transmit just ONE Inteon address like “03.df.01”? This is all I want the device to do.

    X-10 L1 on command, Inteon device address 03.df.01 on…..

    Anonymous
    Post count: 6

    @simplehome wrote:

    Most people will use group commands for control when not using a home automation package.

    Ah ha! Indeed I am using HomeSeer for home automation. and this is probably why I’m reluctant to use “Group” commands.

    Please see my 4-Oct post in this discussion Configuration in Simplehomenet Utility Suite for a more complete description of how I wish to use the EZX10RF with HomeSeer — but in a nutshell I want it to trigger HomeSeer events, not control devices directly; and I want it to do so by sending Insteon commands, NOT X10 commands.

    Was I wrong in thinking that the EZX10RF would be able to do this?

    Anonymous
    Post count: 3

    I finally gave up and sent my EZX10RF back. Don’t know if they will fix it and send me a new one or not, I am extremely dissapointed. I really wanted this product to work, it would have been very helpful. No matter what I did, it would link other Insteon items. I just wanted ONE RF X-10 Code to control ONE Insteon Switch. I would link to control the Kitchen Lights, it would also turn on the bathroom fan and a hallway light for example, and I have never linked those two items together in any scene.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 1

    Following is the process I have been using to create x10 to Insteon translation.

    What I have been doing is manually creating the links.
    1-Hold set button on EZX10RF for 4 seconds (LED will blink dim)
    2-Send X10 Code (ONLY ONCE) Led will blink Bright.
    3-Press Set button on device to be controlled until load or LED Blinks
    4-Press set button on EZX10RF for 4 seconds.
    (repeat for all devices/X10 addresses to be controlled. Each new X10 address will create a new group of links you can always add a new link to an existing X10 address at any time by following the process above).

    *You can link more than one device(at any time) to the same X10 Code without problems by repeating the steps above.
    Once you have all your links created go into Houselinc and rediscover all devices you manually linked(not the EZ10RF). The links will show up and you can edit them.

    I tried to use the Simplehomenet utility suite but it seemed to mess the link tables in the EZX10RF up, or at least I could not figure it out and there does not seem to be much documentation about that software.

    I have found that house link is not able to create links directly to the EZX10RF but it is able to edit and delete them. Once the links are created you can easily change ramp rates and on levels. I hope that a new release of HouseLinc will be able to actually create the links as well. I’m not sure how Houselinc would deal with the x10 part but it would be cool.

    Anonymous
    Post count: 256

    Thanks for providing this method. This makes good use of the utility.

    The issue of the corruption of the database when altering the code records is something SmartLabs is working on. On devices where the embedded PLM has no external memory, the PLM firmware is overwriting the database when other parts of the memory space are written with “peek” commands. We will get around the issue by using extended commands through our EZBridge. Unfortunately the PLC does not support extended commands.
    As a practical work-around, please note the link records before altering the code records. Then, modify the code records first, and re-write the link records.

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